How Pixar's Inside Out 2 Male Director And Producer Tapped Into The Mind Of A 13-Year Old Girl

Back in 2015, Pixar's "Inside Out" brought us into the mind of Riley, a young girl living with her family in Minnesota. We watched as Riley grew up through the eyes of her core emotions: Joy (Amy Poehler), Sadness (Phyllis Smith), Anger (Lewis Black), Fear (Bill Hader), and Disgust (Mindy Kaling). Each of the emotions helped shape Riley's life experiences, but as she got older and dealt with the challenge of moving from Minnesota to San Francisco, it brought a lesson for both Riley and Joy. 

While Joy was always trying to make sure Riley was happy, the energetic emotion had to realize that sometimes it's okay for Riley to be sad, and experiencing sadness can ultimately bring us right back to happiness. But as we left Riley on the cusp of her becoming a teenager at the end of "Inside Out," there were still many more lessons for Riley and Joy to learn.

When we reunite with Riley in "Inside Out 2," Joy has found a perfect balance with the other emotions (with Fear and Disgust now voiced by Tony Hale and Liza Lapira respectively). They each serve a purpose in Riley's everyday life. But with Riley now being 13, puberty comes crashing in and wreaks havoc on that balance, along with four new emotions: Anxiety (Maya Hawke), Envy (Ayo Edebiri), Ennui (Adèle Exarchopoulos), and Embarrassment (Paul Walter Hauser). This massive development results in a crisis of identity for Riley, as Anxiety starts to control every decision she makes and totally uproots Riley's belief system and sense of self. 

What's great about the "Inside Out" franchise is that although it's about a young girl, the emotional experiences Riley has are universal. But even so, making a movie about a teenage girl requires some specific perspective from those who actually lived the life of a young woman. So how did the male director and producer team of Kelsey Mann and Mark Nielsen tap into the mind of a 13-year old girl?

During a press conference at Pixar Animation studios that /Film attended back in March, director Kelsey Mann and producer Mark Nielsen sat down to talk about the making of the animated sequel. Eventually the conversation came around to the fact that they're two men making a movie about a developing girl, and many were wondering exactly how they were able to accurately jump into the mind of the 13-year-old Riley. Right off the bat, Nielsen mentioned Dr. Lisa Damour as one of the experts that they "leaned on heavily" during the movie's development.

If you're not familiar with Dr. Lisa Damour, she's an author, clinical psychologist, and host of the podcast "Ask Lisa," where she "brings her sane, informed, and practical perspective to your timely and timeless parenting questions," as the podcast description explains. Nielsen said that they not only read her books, but they also directly consulted her several times to learn more about what's happening at this specific age, especially when it comes to emotional development. 

Furthermore, Dr. Dacher Keltner, a UC Berkeley psychologist renowned for his research on emotions, returned as a consultant as well. He helped on the first "Inside Out," and he was yet again an invaluable resource as Riley grows into teenage girl. Keltner actually provided some insight into which new emotions should be popping up around this time, and he even offered some pushback about whether Shame, originally intended to be in the movie, was actually an emotion.

The "Ask Lisa" podcast actually has a new episode dedicated entirely to the work that Damour and Keltner did on "Inside Out 2," so feel free to check that out.

Nielsen and Mann were both well aware that they're not teenage girls, so they went directly to the source when it came to making sure their portrayal of Riley was relatable and accurate. In order to do that, they created a braintrust that they referred to a Riley's Crew, a group of nine teenage girls between the ages of 13 and 19. Most of them were in middle school at the time, but they've since gone on to high school, and some have even graduated. As Mann Nielsen explained:

"Every four months we would show the movie to them and we would meet with them and have a notes session and get their thoughts on the characters, Riley's relationship with her friend group, what's going on with them emotionally. Does that resonate? Are we getting it right?"

In fact, as Mann recalled, "They gave sometimes greater, better notes than the people who work here. They were fantastic with it. They treated it like an assignment." Nielsen echoed those sentiments, "It was amazing. They would send us our notes, like we talked to them live and then sometimes we'd say send us your notes. And they'd almost send like a cover letter, like as a book report. It was adorable. It was amazing. They really took it seriously. It was awesome."

Riley's Crew was actually disappointed to see that a bit in the movie they loved, involving an area of Riley's mind called Procrastination Land, ended up on the cutting room floor. So even though they offered valuable insight, not all of the insights they offered resulted in changes to the movie. 

Both Nielsen and Mann had plenty of personal research that they encountered everyday, especially early in the development process. When "Inside Out 2" was just starting to take shape in early 2020, the coronavirus pandemic had just begun, which meant Nielsen and Mann were both working from home with their own kids right outside their door every day. Mann said:

"It was kinda nice to be right there. When I started, my daughter was 13 and my son was 14. So I'm like, this is the exact age I want her to be in the movie, and they're immediately right there. You're always pulling from your lives in every movie I've done here. We're always talking about what it's like to be alive and be a person, a father, a husband, you know, whatever it may be. So you're always kind of putting that into the movie."

Nielsen felt the same way, and their perspective as parents also managed to influence Joy specifically. The producer explained:

"This really is a parental story, and even though it takes place in Riley's mind, she is kind of the set piece and there's something incredibly universal about this story and these emotions that we all have. Even Joy, who's the protagonist of this story, has a very parental view of Riley. All the emotions do, right? They're there to serve her. They're there to do their very best to do whatever they need to protect their girl and to kind of steer her in the right way. Even the original film was based on [director] Pete Docter's observations of his daughter as she was growing up and going through change and becoming a young teen. So having the parental lens on this film has been incredibly helpful."

Finally, "Inside Out 2" has several women in key creative roles on the movie's production. Perhaps most importantly, Meg LeFauve has returned as one of the movie's writers, after working on the script for the original movie. Plus, another key part of the team is Maurissa Horwitz, the film's editor, who is constantly working with nearly every department as the movie takes shape across several years. Nielsen also noted during the press conference that over half the story team on this movie were female story artists, which was a first for Pixar.

On top of that, Pixar has a female composer working on the score for "Inside Out 2," which is another overdue first for the animation studio. Andrea Datzman is behind the movie's music this time, and she's holding onto some of the themes originated by composer Michael Giacchino on the first movie. Datzman is the perfect person to take over "Inside Out 2," having previously worked with Giacchino on a variety of projects, ranging from composing the music for shows like "Alcatraz" and "Undercovers," both with themes by Giacchino, to working as a music/score coordinator on movies like "Up," "Star Trek," "Dawn of the Planet of the Apes," and more. Most recently, Datzman composed the music for the "Up" animated shorts "Dug Days" and "Carl's Date."

Mann has been working at Pixar for years, and he couldn't be more thrilled to get his chance at directing one of the animation studio's feature films. Previously, Mann wrote the story for "The Good Dinosaur," which may not give you a lot of confidence in the sequel, but I can tell you that Mann knocked this one out of the park. Clearly, he cut his teeth with the right people, having written and directed the "Monsters University" short "Party Central," as well as working as a senior creative team member on "Elemental," "Lightyear," and "Turning Red." The director said:

"It's amazing to be able to tell this story. A big reason why I'm making this movie is I want to make it for everyone, but I'm also making it for my little girl. I'm making it for my daughter. I wish I had a movie like this when I was a teenager, and that's the power of the first film. Somebody asked, 'Are you intimidated by you know, following the footsteps?' I'm more excited than anything 'cause the first film, when I went home to think about whether I should say yes to this opportunity or not, I looked at the first movie and I'm like, 'Man, it's everything I love about movies.' It was really fun. It was really imaginative and it made a meaningful impact on the world. I'm like, 'That's why I'm here. I want to do that.' If I can't make some teenager's life that much better like the first film did for many people, then why am I here? You know? So I went back and said, '100%, yes.' So I am just really excited to be able to put this out into the world."

"Inside Out 2" is playing in theaters everywhere now.